Gospel adventures

In 2012, Lutheran Hour Ministries started a program called Online Mission Trips (OMT). This program began as a way to share LHM's ministry work around the world, as well as provide an opportunity to teach students about different cultures.

Beginning in 2019, LHM evolved from OMT to a new program called Gospel Adventures. In partnership with Group Publishing, a leader in creating innovative children’s ministry resources, LHM gives children the chance to “travel” the world, experience other cultures, and see how the Gospel is being shared around the world, from the comfort and safety of their classroom or home.

Gospel Adventures gives kids in Christian schools, churches, and homeschools who are in preschool through middle school, and even some adults, an inside look into the day-to-day lives of people like them around the world through music, videos, and fun characters.

“It was amazing to see God’s hand at work around the globe, and to be able to ‘meet’ people in faraway places,” says Kristin Schmidt in Athens, Georgia. “Gospel Adventures helped our students connect and realize that kids in other countries are not much different from them.”

Children can see, through the engaging videos, that there are children who share the same faith as them who are located all around the world. Not only do participants get to see how people live and work in other countries, but they get to see God’s work in action with examples of how they can share the Gospel with people in these areas through prayer and designated chapel offerings.

“With high-quality videos and engaging activities, the curriculum helps kids learn about life and culture from kids like them—but who live in another part of the world,” says Ashley Bayless, curriculum development manager at LHM. “Kids are constantly surprised by how life isn’t that different in other places around the world. Kids go to school; they help with chores; they play soccer with their friends—and yet life can still look very different: new foods, different transportation, another language. One of the greatest similarities, though, is God’s love for all His children, no matter where they live in the world,” Ashley adds.

Elementary vs. middle school options

Depending on the child’s age, the program features two curriculum styles. There is an interactive curriculum for grade school-aged children and an online experience for middle school-aged children. The grade school curriculum is set up to be teacher-led and allows for interactions between the teacher and students.

On the other hand, the middle school option gives older kids the chance to dive into the culture at their own pace on the interactive Gospel Adventures website. Since the curriculum is so flexible, schools are encouraged to decide if they want to implement the program in individual classes, or if they want to gather all the students to participate in a school-wide Gospel Adventures activity together.

Gospel Adventures curriculum can be downloaded and utilized at any time throughout the year. Anyone can register their home, school, or church for the program at Gospel Adventures. The teacher or parent registrant will receive access to the teacher curriculum as well as access to the interactive webpage. Videos are pre-recorded so the instructor can determine the flow of activities based on the child’s learning schedule.

Celebrate India with Gospel Adventures this year! Just like our past adventures: Zambia Bound, Thailand Trek, Go Mongolia, and Passport to Peru, Gospel Adventures: Celebrate India is a free resource available to Christian schools, churches, homeschools, and individuals across the United States, filled with fun activities and an interactive website.

As a way to support children’s ministry around the world, schools and churches can choose to collect donations from the children through chapel offerings or change drives to put toward LHM’s Global Kids Fund that supports ministries similar to the one they saw during the Gospel Adventures program.

Students in kindergarten through eighth grade at First Immanuel Lutheran School in Cedarburg, Wisconsin, participated in Gospel Adventures: Go Mongolia in January 2020. In addition to participating in the educational aspects provided by Gospel Adventures, the students and congregation members raised more than $2,000 for our Global Kids Fund. Students raised money through coin crusades and competitions in various activities against other grades or classrooms.

Since OMT began in 2012, children have donated over $200,000 to LHM’s Global Kids Fund. This year, gifts made to the Global Kids Fund will supply games and resources for youth clubs in India! Donations can be made online at Lutheran Hour Ministries or mailed to the LHM office in St. Louis, MO.

What about you?

Interested in using Gospel Adventures in your church or school? Visit Gospel Adventures to register, or to download the sample containing the day one curriculum to see what this program is all about. We look forward to being able to Celebrate India with you this year!

About the author

 Megan McDaniel is the Content Manager for Lutheran Hour Ministries. She has a passion for ministry work and is dedicated to helping share the Gospel around the world. 

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*This is a sponsored blog post from Gospel Adventures. Thank you to Gospel Adventures for their support!

Responding to Teaching Challenges with Faith & Hope
WHAT'S INCLUDED IN THIS SERIES:

Thanks to Our Sponsor: Lifeplus

LifePlus is a group of Pre K – 12 international schools located in China and the United Arab Emirates. The schools are Cognia- accredited with instruction in English at all grade levels.

Part of a global community, LifePlus is deeply committed to the peoples and cultures they serve.  Holistic education helps students grow into servant leaders of outstanding character, competence and calling. 

LifePlus offers qualified educators competitive salary packages including paid housing. To learn more, go to LifePlus Worldwide . 

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The highlights:

This is such an important topic, we encourage you to listen to the full episode above. Here is how the episode breaks up:

• The reality of living in a post-Christian world. (01:54)
• What it means to have God-sized confidence. (05:48)
• Three possible responses for teachers navigating current social issues - and which response is best. (07:33)
• How we can use bravery to turn the tide. (11:34)
• Guidance on when to speak and when to be silent. (13:53)
• The challenges to respectful disagreement. (17:38)
• The true source of our confidence and why it matters. (19:38)
• Be a signpost guiding others toward God on the road of life. (22:38)
• How the story ends and why we need to remember it. (23:55)
• The impact of teachers. (29:00)
• Be yourself and let your light shine. (30:26)

Find out more about the Rise Up Summit here. 

resources mentioned:

Rise Up Summit

3 Anchors to Ground Us When Scripture & Culture Clash

How to Be a Light in Your School

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the highlights:

resources mentioned:

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The Mentorship Program

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This will be helpful for anyone, regardless of where you teach. We're going to get into all that. But first, Eric, can you share just a little bit about your background?

[Eric] Yes, absolutely. I got my initial multiple subject teaching credential for teaching elementary school. I'm from a Christian college, but the Christian college's main focus was getting Christian educators into public schools. It really taught us how to live out our faith working in the public school. I started in elementary school. I also hold an authorization to teach middle school and high school English. So I did make a move into the middle school, and then ultimately found myself teaching high school English at a Christian school in China, of all places.

[Linda] That's awesome. I've loved following your journey, and you talk about China in your book. Your book is all about how to teach students to think from a biblical worldview. How did this book and this method of teaching come about?

[Eric] Yes, that's a great question. Like I said, I found myself suddenly in China and in a Christian School which I hadn't been in before, and it led to a lot of frustration initially. There were some things that were totally familiar, like we were in the middle of a WASC Accreditation. We really focused on making everything measurable. That dovetailed perfectly with what we did in public schooling, with standards and things like that.

Then they threw this thing called Expected Schoolwide Learning Results, ESLRs, into the mix. We're supposed to make those measurable. One of our ESLRs was that our students would become lovers of truth. How do you measure if a student is a lover of truth? I didn't know and I still can't really answer that one, but it led to a lot of frustrating times. As my book is Rooftop Perspectives, I found myself up on the rooftop of our apartment building in China with our small dog for him to do his nightly business. I would argue this stuff out with God, going, "You put me here, you want me to figure this out. It's not possible." I finally got to the point where I just threw up my hands with him one night. So that's it, I'm done. I'm just teaching, I'm not figuring this out. I'm just going to teach what I know.

I went downstairs and went to bed feeling really good about myself when I told Him. I'm laying there, and I hear this little voice that says, "Get up." "No." "Get up, write." I know if you argue with God, sometimes, bad things can happen. I've read Jonah. So I got up, I sat down on my dining room table and put a leaf fresh legal pad in front of me, and said, "Okay, you want me to write, what am I going to write?" I just started scribbling, and I started off. The first thing that ended up on the page was those ESLRs. What do we want our students to become? I had to really think about that? What do I want my students to become?

It's like, "I want them to be authentic learners. I really wanted them to have a love of wisdom, not just knowledge." Teaching at the school we taught, it was really interesting. We had very, very motivated, dedicated students. They would pop back anything that you teach them. They can quote scripture better than I ever could. Most of them weren't believers, so that's not what I want. I want it to be internalized. I started working on the ESLRs thing. It came to me, what is it that I want my students to be? It ultimately came down to this- I wanted every student's life to be redeemed, so every student is a believer.

Good. Great. That's awesome, but how do we do that? I really didn't know, how do you define that? One of the phrases you'll find in my book, and one of my characters says, "You know fishes. They act like a fish, they look like a fish, and they smell like a fish. Okay, so what makes a Christian? What makes a believer different than a non-believer?" What really came to my mind is that God changes the way you look at the world, your whole worldview changes, everything changes. I thought, "Okay, let's start there. Is there a way that we can focus our teaching to specifically teach people to look at the world through a Christian worldview?" That's really good. “How” was the really big question, that's what the rest of it developed from.

[Linda] I love that. Sometimes we don't start from that overall picture, like this is our goal, and this is how to get there, so that's wonderful, that framework. Just so you guys know, his book Rooftop Perspectives is fantastic. I highly recommend it. It starts with a story, and moves into the practical, so it's a really enjoyable read and super helpful as well. You mentioned a Biblical worldview. Can you help us define that? What exactly is a Biblical worldview? What does that look like?

[Eric] That was the next part that hit me as I was sitting there on the table. What is a Biblical worldview? Because a worldview is huge, it's everything that you look at through the world. I'm like, "If I want this to be something manageable, I can't do an entire Christian worldview. Some of the things that people have in their Christian worldview are controversial. Not every Christian believes the exact same thing." I wanted to break it down into what the absolute basics were of a Christian worldview. And I broke it down into five specific areas.

I'm like, "Okay, this is doable. All Christians should be able to agree that these things are key, and we can build off of this." The first thing I focus on is truth. I break down all of these things a little further in the book, and take more time than we can here. The truth of creation, the fall, the redemption, and then the purpose of man. With those five things, I figured we can break those down, that's something that we can go with. Then the question of, "Can you actually teach worldview?" hits me.

I didn't want puppets. Sure, I can get up and say, "This is what a Christian should believe about truth," and my students would have puppeted it back perfectly. They never would have internalized it. You can teach people how to understand worldview, but it's not going to change their worldview. How do I do it in such a way that they're going to internalize and develop their own worldview?

[Linda] What did you come up with?

[Eric] That's a good question, and that question is kind of the answer. Worldview is developed by really thinking things through an experience. The easiest way to do that is by asking powerful questions, open-ended questions that really make you think. Yes, questions.

[Linda] It was so simple when you talked about that in your book. It's such a simple concept, but it's a little bit different than what we're used to. We're often used to teaching the answers, right?

[Eric] Yes.

[Linda] Now, we are actively teaching, but this is stepping back and asking the right questions. That is so powerful. Before we get into what questions we're asking, how should we be asking these questions? Are there things that we can do to make them more powerful and obvious to our students? 

[Eric] Yes, that's really good. That's a key part of it. Because I really wanted something that isn’t just for one teacher to do, but something that's so powerful that you can focus an entire school on teaching worldview. The first thing with the questions is to write them down so that students see them all the time. In the Understanding by Design method of teaching, you're putting the essential question on the board so that the kids know what the objective of the lesson is. It's the same thing with these.

You want the questions to be seen and you don't give them the answers directly. You never give them the question at the end of the day and have them fill out the answer. You want them to think about what you're studying to answer that question throughout the day. You don't answer it directly.

[Linda] Let's walk this through with an example. Can you give me an example of what one of these questions might be?

[Eric] Yes, absolutely. We've got the five different worldview areas that I talked about. With those, the first part of the model is something we call focus questions. Focus questions are a series of grade-level appropriate questions that we can answer with subject matter content in order to help guide the learner to develop their worldview. They're really big questions, and they build on each other. For truth, I break it down into a question for elementary, one for middle school, and one for high school, and they spiral. They get progressively harder.

The elementary question is “Where does truth come from?” Pretty basic. Middle school is “How do we know it's true?” Middle schoolers always want to argue about what's true or not true, and that's really where they are, so just a little deeper. High school is “What is the nature of truth and how is it revealed to us?” Then it just keeps building a little bit more in each one. It’s a focus all the way through the school. If all the teachers are trying to make their curriculum help answer those questions, the students are getting it across all grade levels and across all subjects.

[Linda] This is a model you could use just in your individual classroom, but it becomes more powerful if it's used in conjunction with other teachers, or the whole school in general, right? Is that correct?

[Eric] Right. Absolutely.

[Linda] The focus question is on your board. Do you bring it up, and have any discussions about it? Or is it just always in the background?

[Eric] With the big focus questions, you can have a discussion, but they're so big. Like, “Where does truth come from?” That's not something you're going to answer in one lesson ever. Adults are working on those questions. The questions are on posters and things like that, always drawing people back into them. But to really be able to build out your lessons and answer these questions, I get more questions. To answer the focus questions, I use what are called focused essential questions.

[Linda] That's right. I remember these from your book. What do these look like? Can you give some examples of these?

[Eric] Yes, absolutely. This goes back to the Understanding by Design type of thing. Essential questions are smaller questions that help answer, “Where does truth come from?” You break the question down all the way into elementary, and into this specific lesson that you're teaching. If we're doing truth again, where does truth come from for elementary language arts? It could be as simple of a question, like, “Is this story true, or make believe?”

How do you know that the author is telling you facts or opinions? Things like that will lead them to start answering where truth comes from in their mind. It's easily things that you can answer through your lessons.

[Linda] As you're developing lessons, you're asking yourself, “How does this relate to this big question?” “What are some questions we can discuss as a class, or have students write about, or incorporate another way?” You're just coming up with these questions to relate in. Am I understanding that right?

[Eric] Yes, exactly. You're using these small questions that you'll answer with your curriculum that day. Those will help answer the big focus questions.

[Linda] Because these are still big questions, but they're not so big. They're small enough that you can tackle and answer them. You're just gradually building this worldview because you can't build a worldview in a day. You're just creating blocks.

[Eric] Exactly. We don't want to build a worldview in a day. That wouldn't be a very deep or wide worldview. It takes time, but the focused attention to it is what's going to make it powerful over the years.

[Linda] In a minute, I want to go through a start to finish example. But before we do that, how long do you recommend staying on one of the big focus questions? For example, what is true? How long would you stay on one of those? Do you change that every week, every month, every school year?

[Eric] The big focus questions? They are there forever.

[Linda] Do you have five of them in your room throughout the year?

[Eric] Yes. If you break it down into the five different worldview areas, there's one for each. And then the way I get the model broken down, it breaks it down by elementary, middle school, or high school. If you wanted to, you can break that down even further. I don't have all of the answers to the questions. I just really want to start the conversation with people to do this, and they can add all the questions that they want to have.

[Linda] It's not necessarily, “Okay, this month I have to talk about truth. This month, I'm talking about creation.” These are the five areas. However this lesson, I can look at it and say, “Which one does it tie into best?” and “What question can I ask to tie into one of these?” Is that more the idea?

[Eric] Absolutely. I have seen schools do it differently. I've seen schools that say, “Yes, this month, we're focusing on truth,” and they put up posters of it. Then they cycle through. Or just to whichever fits the particular lesson that you're doing. 

[Linda] You have the flexibility to do whatever makes sense and experiment, right? We don't have to get it perfect the first time around. This is something you just start out with, and you'll grow with your students, and I would imagine.

[Eric] Yes, absolutely. That's how it has to happen. There's this grace involved in education, right? Or there should be.

[Linda] Absolutely. Let's walk through an example. Can you give an example of what this would look like from start to finish in, say, a middle school history class? Where would they start from? How could they plan a question? What might the conversations look like? Let's just walk through an example.

[Eric] Sure. Middle school history. Something like the Age of Exploration with Columbus. You're planning your normal curriculum like you normally would. You've got to cover the material. But what questions can you ask them to focus on worldview? If you look at middle school truth, the focus question is “How do we know what is true?” Then, you can do a focused essential question that will be answered with the lesson. For example, “How does one's perspective change their view of events?” Because for some, the Age of Exploration was fantastic. For others, not so much. 

Which side of the story is true? You can have big conversations with that, and figure out what the nature of truth is. How do we know what is true? Another example, to go away from truth for a bit, is the fall. The focus question for middle school for the fall is “What does it mean to be human?” If that's the focus question, you can ask things like, “What motivated the explorers? Why did they do what they did?” Fairly basic, but it gets them thinking along those lines, and what it means to be human. We can take it a step further. Another worldview area is purpose. The middle school focus question is, “How does God want you to carry on his work?”

Did the explorers expand the true kingdom of God? Again, that could tie back in with the perspective; it depends on who you're asking. All of those questions go back to build their worldview through those. I think those are easily answerable with that curriculum.

[Linda] It's simultaneously promoting better discussion and working more with your subject matter. You're not even taking time away from your subject matter to answer these questions, right? You're just doing it all at once. It's not even any competition really. That's awesome.

[Eric] You should gain a better understanding of the subject matter and build the worldview at the same time. Gaining wisdom, not knowledge.

[Linda] Awesome. Let's think through what this would look like in a Christian school versus the public schools. So I'm thinking in a Christian school, when we're answering these questions, we're encouraging students to use Biblical answers. We're encouraging students to use the Bible. We're bringing in a Biblical perspective. Is that right?

[Eric] Yes, absolutely. Public school- not so much.

[Linda] What do you think this would look like more in a public school? The question, “What does God want you to do?” We couldn't ask that, but we can still ask some of these focused essential questions. They're still really good questions that would get people thinking. Is that still the goal?

[Eric] It was for me when I taught public school. It was for most of the Christians I knew in public schools. We still want to influence lives. We still want to build the worldview that we want students to have, and to lead them along the path. In a public school, I probably wouldn't be posting up the exact same focus questions. In my own lesson planning and building out the focused essential questions, absolutely. 

[Linda] Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's benefit in a public school. Even if you can't necessarily draw out the Biblical answer in all of these questions, there is benefit in asking the question. Even if students don't walk away with the same perspective that you wish they would, you're getting them thinking, and as students start on that path of seeking these answers, that opens up doors for the truth. Am I thinking correctly about this?

[Eric] Absolutely. It’s providing a question that just sticks with them forever. Five years down the line, the question pops back into their head like a song you can't get out, and just keeps them searching. If you're on a search for truth, you're eventually going to come to God. No matter what you're teaching, if you're focusing on making your students to be lovers of truth and guiding them along that path. it will stick.

[Linda] I love that. Implanting things like the value of truth and purpose. The answer is found in God and in Christ. When they search for that, they're headed in the right direction. That's great. On a very practical note, where's the best place for people to find your list of focus questions? They know there are five questions for each grade level. Is your book the best place to find those?

[Eric] I would say my book is the best place. I would, of course, like people to pick up a copy of the book. Like you said, it's not your typical teacher manual for how to do something. I don't like reading them. I couldn't handle writing one. It's told from a very different point of view, and I think walks people through some of the thoughts I would like them to have in a creative way. Otherwise, I've got my website, www.rooftopperspectives.com. A lot of the information is there also, but the books are a really good place to start.

[Linda] I highly recommend them as well. As we finish up, what other advice or encouragement would you like to share for educators that are wanting to be more intentional with integrating a Biblical worldview thinking?

[Eric] It doesn't have to be as hard as we sometimes make it out to be. That is a big piece of it. I always like to focus on what I want out of my students. I actually want to spend eternity with my students. That's where my focus comes from. What are the things we need to do to work along those lines? And then ultimately realize, all we're doing is planting seeds. The rest of this is in God's hands. Commit your ways to Him, follow down the path, and have faith that He's got a plan for each of them, and you can only do your part.

[Linda] That's such an important encouragement to end with, because we are called to do what we can, but sometimes we take on the burden of the results, too, and those aren't ours. Those are up to God. That's great. I also loved your encouragement that it doesn't have to be as hard as we think. Maybe if I'm thinking about this and thinking this sounds great, but it feels a little overwhelming, I can start small, right? I could pick one subject, or maybe write something on my desk, and just think about it periodically and grow from there. Do you have a recommendation of a place to start if I'm nervous about jumping in with both feet?

[Eric] Start asking questions. I don't think there's anything that nervous about it. You don't have to adopt everything. It's a very simple thing to start integrating some of these questions and ask open-ended questions and don't answer them directly.

[Linda] I love that. It's simple. Ask questions that you don't answer. I love it.

[Eric] That's what Jesus did.

[Linda] Yes, that's true. Very true. Thank you so much. This has been so helpful. If people want to connect with you further, are your book and your website the best places or is there anywhere else to connect with you?

[Eric] Book, website- I am happy to dialogue with anybody. Also, I'll come out and do trainings and things like that on-site if people want to take this deeper in their school.

[Linda] That's fantastic. Thank you so much.

[Eric] My pleasure.

Christian educator's virtual summit

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[Linda] So, if you missed that, you definitely want to go back and listen to that first, because it really lays the groundwork for what we're about to talk about, which is “How do we live that out? How should we respond? How should we act when we encounter these questions?”

[Linda] So, thank you again for taking this time.

[Jonathan] No, thank you for having me.

Wrong Responses

[Linda] So, let's start out by talking about wrong responses. What are some things we definitely want to avoid?

[Jonathan] Right. I think one of the things, as Christians, either as Christian educators or just Christians in the public square, is that we want to stay away from stories of disgust or responses of disgust. Like, "That's so weird!", or "That's so odd!", or just a sense of rejection, of "I don't want to have anything to do with that." On the other side, I also don't think that we can just offer outright affirmation either, of "Yeah, that's fine. You were born this way. Just do whatever you want." And so, somewhere in the middle of that has to be a movement where Christians can speak truth and love, develop their convictions, and hold them with compassion.

[Jonathan] And so knowing where you lean on this spectrum of either being really turned off by that or disgusted by that because it's just different and confusing, or saying "Yeah, I think it's okay" is helpful. Maybe knowing your tendency on either side can help move you towards, I would say, a Biblical pathway of being able to speak truth and love.

[Linda] Right. Yeah, that's really helpful.

[Linda] So, let's walk through this in a couple of different scenarios. Let's start with Christian schools, okay?

[Jonathan] Yeah.

Gender identity and sexuality

[Linda] In your seminar, you talked about developing the right concept of gender identity and sexuality for teens, and even for children. I would say this could be a whole additional topic, but what are a few things that would be helpful for Christian school teachers that have the freedom to talk about this from a Biblical perspective? How can we help students develop that right concept?

[Jonathan] That's a great question. Going back to what we talked about last session, that's where I think sexual discipleship is so important. If Christian teachers, in a Christian school setting, have the opportunity and the platform to talk about these issues from a Biblical framework, then I would hope that we could take advantage of those opportunities. And one of the things that we can do is put forth a positive, compelling vision for gender and for sexuality.

[Jonathan] So often we talk about these things behind closed doors, proverbially. Or we just depend on other people, or books, or pastors, or counselors, or our youth group leaders to educate our students about sex, or gender, or even our bodies. And the Bible does not shy away from that. The Bible is really honest, as we talked about in the last session, that God created us male and female; that He created a complementary between genders that's actually a signpost of His original goal and intention.

[Jonathan] And so, I think, for us to be able to talk about those things openly and honestly, but to frame them as something good, is actually a gift. And also not only are they good and a gift, but it's actually the design that God has intended for us. And so, as human beings who are dependent and made in His image, our goal is to live in accordance with who God is and what He's called us to be. The goal then is an alignment of who I am, and my sense of identity, with who God says I am and what He created me to be.

[Linda] Yeah, that's so helpful because sometimes it can just feel like a list of rules for teens, right?

[Jonathan] Yes.

[Linda] "Don't do this, don't do that. These are all the things that are out." It’s not that we don’t say that, but you're building this positive vision of “This is God's beautiful plan, and this is how we fit into it, and this is what the Gospel looks like walked out.”

[Jonathan] Absolutely. Here's what God actually says "yes" to: He says "yes" to the unity of both body and soul, and that your body can be used as a way to bring honor and glory to God. And in 1 Thessalonians 4, Paul picks that up actually. He says, "I want you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling that you have received." And he moves forward. He says, "Abstain from sexual immorality." But he doesn't just talk about sex, he also talks about work. He says, "Hey, I want you to live a life that's pleasing to me through the way that you work." And then, at the end of the chapter, he moves into talking about grief and the Lord's return. He says, "Hey, I want you to live a life pleasing to the Lord in the way that you grieve and deal with hard things."

[Jonathan] So, it's not just about sex that the Bible has a lot of prohibitions on. It's about every area of life that God says, "From the way that you handle sex and your body, to the way that you work, to the way that you deal with hard things and grief, those are all ways that you can glorify God and actually live into your calling."

[Linda] That's awesome. Yeah, that's so helpful.

interacting with people experiencing gender DYSPHoriA

what about pronouns?

[Linda] So, the next question I have is one that I know a lot of teachers have, and it's a super practical question. What advice do you have when students ask you to use their pronoun of choice? What are your thoughts on that?

[Jonathan] Yeah. Linda, it's such a good question. It's a question that I've really wrestled with and that I've thought a lot about. And I'll just say at the outset that Christians, Bible-believing Christians who share a Biblical vision of gender and sexuality, have come to some different conclusions on that. And so, what conclusion I might come to might be different than other people.

[Jonathan] One of the things that I try to ask myself is "Who am I talking to?" If I'm talking to somebody who I know is from a Christian background, or from a background of faith, or who is even a professing Christian, and hearing, "I don't want to be this gender anymore. I am now this gender, and I want you to use these pronouns and this name,” I would probably take a little bit more of an inquisitive approach to that. I would want to ask them a little bit more to help me understand what's going on. Because I would say, "From what I understand from Scripture, Scripture gave us gender as a gift. God created us with gender, and that's a gift, and that's a good thing. So, help me understand what's going on inside." And so, I'd probably be more curious, and maybe less ready to acquiesce to that request right off the bat.

[Jonathan] Now, if they were just a person I didn't know, or they were not a believer, not a professing Christian, I would probably use their preferred name as much as I could, but maybe not so much their preferred pronoun. The preferred pronoun a lot of times, obviously, carries with it the gender: her, he, she, him. And sometimes in conversation we can just use the name. And the name can be, I think, a little bit of an easier way to address them, rather than using the personal pronouns.

[Jonathan] Now, that would be my personal belief because, in that moment, especially with an unbeliever, what I'm trying to do is maintain a relationship. And I don't want to disengage them, or to put an even further depth between the two of us by virtue of, "Well, I don't want to use your name." So, then I never have an opportunity to actually build a friendship or a relationship with them. So, that's why  for an unbeliever or a not professing Christian, I would be more willing to use their preferred name when possible.

[Jonathan] The caveat that I would put with that is some Christians might come to a different conclusion and say, "I just don't think that I can do that. God made them a male, and they were given a male name. I just, conscience-wise, don't think that I can do that." And Paul tells us in Romans 14:23 that, "What is not done from faith is sin." And so, as a believing Christian, if you're not able to do that, I don't want you to sin against your conscience. You have to do what you think is the right thing to do, based off of what Scripture calls us to.

[Jonathan] In 1 Timothy 1:5, Paul tells Timothy, "I want you to be operating from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith." And I think that triad of sincere faith, pure conscience, and a pure heart are really instructive for us, too, as we come to this.

[Jonathan] If your goal in talking to somebody who is transgender is to build a relationship with them, and you're able to use their name with a clear conscience, then I think that that's a good step at building a relationship. But if not, then I think that you'll probably have to reevaluate in that moment that there could be a risk of rupturing that relationship by virtue of your refusal to use their preferred name. So, you might come to me, and say, "Well, I want to be called Bobby." And in conversation, I'm like, "Well, you're not Bobby. You're Linda." And as an individual, you might say, "Well, I don't even want to talk to you. You're not even willing to call me by my name." And the relationship is done and over; there's not an opportunity for further conversation. That's just the risk that you run, I think, in that scenario.

[Linda] So, you're saying, first, you have to pray about this. You have to examine your heart. But the conclusion you've come to for yourself, and many teachers might come to, is that maybe the relationship is worth using this name. And by using the name, you're not endorsing anything. You're just using the name that they choose, just like they ask you to use a nickname, and maybe try to avoid the pronouns as much as you can.

[Jonathan] Right, exactly. And again, some people might hear this and say, "Oh, that sounds a little bit like you're trying to hug a legal fine line." And yeah, we are trying to be as nuanced as we can without sacrificing Biblical truth.

[Jonathan] Names, I find a lot of times, are less gender-specific than actual gender pronouns. You know, Chris, Sam, those might be names that could be boy or girl names. I grew up in the South, and Ashley was a boy's name, not a girl's name. And so, names, I think, are a little bit more open to interpretation, whereas gender pronouns are obviously gender-specific.

[Jonathan] But again, I think that those convictions have to be developed in community by prayer, which you rightly mentioned, and getting the wisdom of maybe your pastor or wise people around you as well.

[Linda] Yeah, thanks so much. And hopefully that gives you guys something to think about, because I know a lot of you have that issue. And sometimes there are even legal obligations, and you're wrestling with those. So, hopefully that will help you think that through.

[Jonathan] It's a tough issue. It's a good question, but it is a tough issue. And like I said, Linda, people from varying backgrounds have arrived at different conclusions.

who are you talking to?

[Linda] So, as you're talking about these different pronouns, in your seminar, you shared some couplets that I found so helpful. Would you mind sharing these with us? Because I think it's helpful in this question, and it's helpful in so many other things as well.

[Jonathan] Right. Those couplets come from Pastor Kevin DeYoung. He's written a really helpful book called What Does the Bible Really Teach About Homosexuality?  \And it's a book that is more oriented towards homosexuality rather than gender identity issues. But I think some of the things that he shares in one of the appendices in the book are universally applicable. And he offers some different couplets that I think are really important. What it's based on are things that you and I have already talked about: about the importance of knowing who you're talking to. And the importance of knowing who you're talking to then helps you, we would say, contextualize. Contextualize your conversation.

[Jonathan] So, he says "If we're speaking to cultural elites who despise us in our beliefs, we want to be bold and courageous." And I would tell Christians, especially the educators that you're seeking to reach, that there's no need to be ashamed about the Biblical teaching about gender. There can be a boldness and a courageousness that says, "This is what Scripture teaches, and it's good. It's right. It's not old-fashioned. It's not weird. It's not puritanical. It's not any of those things. It's actually good. God said that it's good." And so, we want to be bold and courageous when we talk to people like that.

[Jonathan] He says, "If we're speaking to strugglers who fight against gender dysphoria or same-sex attraction, we want to be patient and sympathetic." And so, as we've already mentioned, for people who genuinely are struggling with that sense of dysphoria, or dissonance, or "something is not right inside", we don't want to just stereotype them, or malign them, or call them crazy. We want to be patient and sympathetic. We want to reach out to them.

[Jonathan] He says, "If we're speaking to sufferers who have been mistreated by the church, we want to be apologetic and humble." Bullying is a major issue for the transgender community. And for transgender youth or adolescents who have been bullied, as Christians I think that we can build bridges of rapport with them and say, "That's not right. We're sorry that you went through that. We're sorry that you've had that experience. That's not right."

[Jonathan] He goes on to say, "If we're speaking to shaky Christians who seem ready to compromise the faith for society's approval, we want to be persuasive and persistent." And some of us might be at different spots in our own understanding of this, where we might be tempted to say, "I don't know. That sounds too hard to handle, and it would be a lot easier if everybody could just do whatever they wanted to." Maybe do what was right in our own eyes. And I think when we're having conversations like that, we want to be persuasive and persistent that what God's Word says is true and right, and it's good. And we want to be persuasive to say, "Listen, this is the right way."

[Jonathan] He says, "If we're speaking to gays and lesbians ..." Or let's say transgender people as well. "... who live as the Scriptures would not have them live, we want to be winsome and straightforward." And that balance of both winsomeness and straightforwardness, we might say is just speaking truth and love. Right? We want to be honest about our convictions, but we can do it in a compassionate way without compromising our convictions.

[Jonathan] And then finally, he says, "If we're speaking to belligerent Christians who hate or fear homosexuals or transgender people, we want to be upset and disappointed." And there's just no room for that type of hatred or disgust with the Biblical ethic of love. And so, we rightly want to confront that type of behavior when we see it.

[Linda] That is just so helpful, especially in understanding the different audiences. Especially, "Am I talking to a believer, or a non-believer?" And that's just going to change not what you believe, not what is true, but how you go about that conversation.

[Jonathan] And you see that type of contextualization with Christ. When you see him interacting in the Gospels, he doesn't just have one sermon that he just pulls out of his back pocket to just preach to every single person. He preaches the same message. It's a message of grace, that we're sinners and that we're in need of redemption. But He articulates that out, and preaches this out, and lives it out in a hundred different ways. Conversationally, publicly proclaiming it. A lot of different ways based off of who his audience is.

[Jonathan] So, there's not a compromise on the message, but there's a right understanding of, "Who am I talking to? And what's most beneficial in the moment?" That I think all of us can learn from his approach there.

[Linda] Right. And our goal is keeping that right testimony, and building relationships.

building bridges

[Linda] What are some general principles we can keep in mind as we seek to have the right testimony in conversations with people?

[Jonathan] Right. I think one of the things is that we want to make sure that our relationships are built to build bridges for the Gospel. That we're not using our relationships to win debates. We're not using them to influence people into a specific position per se. There are a lot of people who might have what we would say a "Biblical view" of gender and sexuality, but who might not know Christ. And so, our primary goal is that people would know Christ, that they would treasure Christ, that they would love Christ, that they would be disciples of Christ. Out of that, we hope and we pray that understanding of gender and sexuality comes from that. But we want to make sure that the Gospel is always primary, and so we want to allow that to guide our conversations.

[Jonathan] I'd say another thing is just making sure that we get to know the whole person. And again, we've talked about that before. I had a good friend at one of our campuses at Parkside who was a well-known football coach in our area. Saturdays he would play his games and Sundays he'd come to church. And he said Sundays were always the hardest day for him because the only thing that anybody ever wanted to talk to him about on Sundays was, "Hey, how was the game on Saturday? Did you win or did you lose?" And he would often tell me, "I'm more than just a football coach! I have a family, and I have likes and interests. There's a lot more to me than just my job or what I do."

[Jonathan] And the same thing, I think, can go for gender identity. Again, going back to that iceberg illustration. A person might be struggling with gender dysphoria, but there's a lot more that you can talk about. Don't use that as the only point of connection. If you do, you're going to fall off the iceberg pretty soon. You're not going to have very much real estate to travel. And so,  I think, developing a wide base for relationship is important.

[Linda] That's awesome. And for those of you that teach in public schools, you might be thinking, "Okay, I'm supposed to keep the Gospel as the focus. But I'm not allowed to share the Gospel." But keep in mind that every relationship you build, God can still use. Right?

[Jonathan] Absolutely.

[Linda] It is a piece. When you hear people's testimonies, there are so many pieces in there. And if the Gospel is still the goal, God can use you as a piece in that puzzle. And you never know. Sometimes, students graduate, you reconnect, and then you have the freedom to share.

[Jonathan] Then let me share an encouragement for the teachers in your audience on that point. In Mark, chapter four, in the parable of the sower, Jesus is giving this parable, and He says, "There's a sower who goes out, and he's sowing seed." And the seed is the Gospel. It's the message. And He talks about all of the different grounds that it falls on: thorny ground, rocky ground, good soil. And we normally think of it primarily from the perspective of the sower sowing the seed, and what type of ground. But a lot of times, like you were saying, a teacher might be somebody who is pulling rocks away from the seed to allow it to flourish, or who might be pulling thorns away from a seed to allow it to not get choked out, or who might be heaping some fertilizer, and water, and sunshine on top of the seed. And again, we might not be the harvester, but a Godly teacher who loves his or her students well, might be a component in that student's life that might reap a harvest years down the road. That can be an encouragement for all of us. Ultimately, we might not know the impact right then of how God uses our conversations and our words. But down the road, I think oftentimes God uses those things in a person's life.

[Linda] Thank you for sharing that. This is so encouraging.

what should we say?

[Linda] This last section that we want to talk about, is particularly more for Christian teachers in public schools.

[Linda] So, first of all, how should we interact? We've already talked about this a lot, but with the student that has gender dysphoria, keeping in mind that we have these limits. For example, you were telling me earlier about this website that has some detransitioning stories. Is that something that might be wise to share with a student?

[Jonathan] Right, right. I do think that it would be a good option. Because again, sometimes culture can say, "This is what you're feeling. You're feeling this sense of dysphoria. This is the answer." And I think that there are probably other ways that that dysphoria could be addressed. And one of the issues that I think presents a little bit of a troubling statistic, especially for transgender youth and adolescents, is that they have significantly higher rates of anxiety, depression, and suicidality than their cisgender peers. So, their peers whose biological sex and gender identity are lining up.

[Jonathan] And so, one of the difficulties that we can gather from that data is that maybe there's a narrative that's being sold to some of these children of, "Okay, this is what you feel. And if you move forward and get this done, or identify like this, then you'll be happy. You're going to be okay. You won't be depressed or anxious.” Or “you'll be accepted. You'll be loved. You'll be happy with who you are if you do this." Well, they get on the other side of that, either the hormone therapies, the counseling, the change in name and gender, and they realize, "I actually still have all of these struggles. What do I do with that?"

[Jonathan] And so, I think, as a teacher, what you can do in a very helpful way, and in a way that is in keeping with whatever ethical guidelines are in place as a teacher, is to say, "You know what? Are there other things or other opportunities that you could explore? Have you ever thought about counseling or talking to a religious leader? Are you involved in a local community of faith where you could talk to an individual just to get another perspective?" I think that that can be helpful.

[Jonathan] Those stories of detransitioning can be helpful too, if not just for your own benefit, maybe even for the benefit of a particular student to say, "Hey, here are some people who did go through with some type of transition, and who realized it actually didn't solve the issue that they were hoping that it would solve. And there's some regret, there's some wishing that they would have tried or done something different. As a teacher, I just want you to be aware that there are other options out there other than just this particular pathway of completely changing your gender."

[Linda] Yeah. And this is in combination with all we talked about before, right? Getting to know someone, dealing with the other issues, not just the tip of the iceberg. But maybe, as the opportunity presents itself, saying, "Hey, have you considered this? Did you know that there are people who have done this, and then come to realize that they wish they would have known about this earlier? I just want you to know all the options." You're not necessarily trying to convince them if you're not allowed to, but you're just presenting, "Have you thought? Have you considered all these options?"

[Jonathan] Right.

[Linda] Yeah.

[Jonathan] And again, as teachers, you realize with teenagers and adolescents that their desires change often, their feelings change often. Trying to capture a stable or consistent sense of who they are is a little bit like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. And so, one of the things that you do is just be a consistent, loving presence in their life that affirms them, that loves them, that is there for them. And something like that is unmistakably a good thing that you can present that and be that for a student.

[Linda] Yeah, that's such a great reminder.

[Linda] So, we've talked a lot about how to interact with students. But there's also another side to it- of policy. And in this decade, the coming decade, schools are still trying to figure out "How do we handle this? What are our policies looking like?"

how can we advocate?

[Linda] If their opinion is asked, or if they're on a panel, how can Christian teachers wisely advocate? Even if we can't share all the Biblical side, how can we wisely advocate?

[Jonathan] Right. How can you wisely advocate for what would be Judeo-Christian values or morals? I think you're right, that question is becoming increasingly difficult to answer in our culture. And so, again, you're left with two different extremes of do we just become completely assimilated by our culture and just go that way? Or do we just completely withdraw and say, "Well, you know what? You can't really be Christian in public education anymore. You just need to completely disconnect." I don't think either of those options are necessary. I think that there's always a middle option of how can somebody have a prophetic voice and witness in the midst of a difficult culture.

[Jonathan] And so, maybe Christian teachers in public school settings view themselves a little bit in the tradition of an Old Testament prophet. The Old Testament prophets are saying things that nobody wants to hear and that nobody is listening to, and they oftentimes get reviled and hear, "Shut up! We don't want to hear from you." But yet, because of their faith in God, because of the mission that God called them to, they call forth and proclaim God's message. And so, I actually think that Christian teachers have a really unique opportunity, like you said, to be public advocates in the public square and in the public market.

[Jonathan] So, what does that look like? Well, the first thing is that whenever possible I think we want to be respectful of the authorities that are above us. Right? Scripture says that authority is good. We all live under authority. Paul tells us in Romans 13 that the government is our authority. Even when we don't like it, even when we wish our tax rates were a little bit lower, or when government officials are doing things that we don't like, we're still called to live under their authority.

[Jonathan] So, whenever possible, and when it's not in direct contradiction with what Scripture teaches us to do, I think we want to be respectful of and in submission to our authorities at our school: your principals, your superintendents, your supervisors. That's one way. It's that you live a godly life that says, "Listen, I'm not a troublemaker. I'm not trying to be divisive. I am submissive. I am somebody who follows authority and who is supportive of our authorities and our structures, but who is also able to add a different voice or a different view." I think that's one thing that we can do, that teachers can do.

[Jonathan] The other thing that I think that teachers can do is make sure that there is, what I call, "relational integrity.” If you're going to say this, make sure that your life adds up to it on the other side. Right? Make sure that the way you're acting in your classroom is bringing glory and testimony to God. Jesus tells us in John 13, "By this will all men know that you are my disciples, that you have love for one another."

[Jonathan] So, the things that we're saying, are they coming from a person who we already know to be loving, compassionate, patient, gentle? Who displays the fruit of the Spirit? And I think that that relational integrity is really key. We don't want to be advocating on this side for a God that we say that we follow when in practice we are just acting like everybody else. Right? And so, I think that type of relational integrity is really important. Integrity, and maybe credibility would be the other word I'd use.

[Linda] Yeah, yeah. That's great.

[Linda] Just one follow up is that is in some cases, the policies are changing rapidly. There are situations where maybe a teacher is required to use a pronoun that, as we talked, maybe their conscience won't let them use. Or they're required to have books in their library, in kindergarten and first grade that particularly push a transgender narrative, and they say, "I cannot in good conscience do this." What does Christian noncompliance look like in that place?

[Jonathan] Yeah, Linda that's truly a big question.

[Linda] I know that's a loaded question.

[Jonathan] We probably need another segment for that.

[Jonathan] That's a wonderful question. Well, what does Scripture say? We do know Scripture says that, at the end of the day, we must obey God rather than men. So, if we are in a position where we are directly having to disobey one of God's commands for the sake of our employer, I don't think that's right Biblically. And so, we would need to voice our concerns, our consternation about being put into that position, to the appropriate person in charge. To say, "Religiously and based off of my background of faith, I just cannot do this."

[Jonathan] I'll give you a little bit of an analogous example. I know several Christian counselors and Christian therapists who were in secular mental health settings who have said, "I just can't counsel somebody towards making this transition, based off of my faith." And that conversation was a hard conversation. But one of the conversations that came as a result of that was their supervisor, their clinical supervisor, just said, "Well, we won't give you those kind of cases then." And so, it comes out as a loss of revenue, potentially, for that counselor. It might shrink their caseload. But it's a way where the counselor is still staying true to what he believes Scripture is calling him to, while at the same time rightly expressing to his boss or her supervisor that he or she just can't comply with something that violates their conscience. And so, I wonder if some type of conversation with a principal, a superintendent, or a supervisor could be had?

[Jonathan] We always want to start off these conversations with prayer; that’s just a no-brainer. I would say the other thing is to seek outside counsel. Get the advice and counsel of maybe fellow Christians that you know of who are within your school system to ask them how they've navigated it, how they've handled it. The advice and wisdom of maybe a pastor, an elder, or a ministry leader at your church.

[Linda] That's really helpful. So, you're not just on an island trying to figure it out yourself. 

[Jonathan] Exactly, so you're not on an island. Absolutely. We're designed to live in a community of people.

[Linda] Well, thank you so much. I'm sure we could talk for so much longer. But these have been some really helpful things, and I pray it's been helpful for you guys as well.

[Linda] Anything else you'd like to share as we're finishing up?

[Jonathan] The encouragement that I'd want to give to all of you is that what you do and the role that you're serving is important. God will use your words, your life, your testimony for His Kingdom. In Galatians 6:9, He says, "Don't grow weary in doing good, for in due season you'll reap a harvest." So, I'm encouraged to be here with you, and by extension, all the people that you'll be serving this weekend. And just know that God will steward and use what you give to Him in a way that might not be known to us right at the outset, but that in the long term will bear a great harvest. So, thank you.

[Linda] Well, thank you so much. And once again, check out all the resources and links that we included in this post. And let us know what questions you have, and we'll see what we can do.

[Jonathan] Right. Thank you.

About jonathan holmes

Jonathan has written for a number of sites and organizations including, The Gospel Coalition, Biblical Counseling Coalition, Covenant Eyes and the Journal for Biblical Counseling. Jonathan serves on the Council Board for the Biblical Counseling Coalition; he speaks frequently at retreats and conferences. He and his wife, Jennifer, have four daughters, Ava, Riley, Ruby, and Emma. In his spare time Jonathan enjoys spending time with his family, reading, traveling and cooking/gardening.

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[Jackie] Sure, I have a really fun and unique educational background. I grew up in the public school system out in California. So kindergarten through college, graduated from UC Berkeley. And then after we started our family, I was really praying about whether I should go teach other people's kids, or if I should teach my own. The Lord really convicted me to stay home and so I homeschooled for many years and loved it.

[Jackie] Our children are now all grown and those were some of the happiest  memories that we had. So I've also been a homeschool mom, and then when they got older, the Lord called them to go into a Christian private school. Again, we just prayed for God's will and that's where he wanted them to be. They said, "Okay, well, that costs money." So at that point, I'm going back to work, of course, and really praying about that, and the Lord opened up a fabulous opportunity for me to teach in a Christian elementary school. In fact, the same one where my kids were going to school so that made life a lot easier. Four kids were up and out the door, but we're going to the same campus, so that was really helpful and I love that.

[Linda] Oh, it's so nice to be able to be with them.

[Jackie] Oh, it was. I so admire women who can go in one direction and the other, but the four of us all on the same property really helped. And so I did that for several years. And my principal came to me one day and said, "Hey, we got this big donor that wants to start a gifted program in our school, and we've prayed about it, and you're the one." And I said, "I have no idea how to do that." She said, "Well, the Lord will help you." I went home and He confirmed that that was God's will.

[Jackie] So I started a Gifted Ed program and that was a blast. And the Lord had prepared me for that. My husband has a very high IQ and two of our four children have very, very high IQs and so homeschooling, I went at a faster pace because they could. And so that was really fun and I did that for several years and then ended up transitioning over into a private Christian High School and taught there.

[Jackie] I wanted to get my Master’s, but I was teaching and had four kids and my husband was traveling and so that just never fit into the equation. I thought, “Somebody is going to suffer, either my students or my children or my marriage.” There are only 24 hours in the day. But then the Lord opened up an opportunity. So I got my Master's from Liberty University in Gifted Ed and that was an exciting and wonderful experience. I did all of that in the public school system, up in the Seattle Tacoma area, where we lived for 20 years.

[Jackie] I have a fun background because it's public, private, and homeschooling. I've seen all of them done extremely well, and I've seen them done not so well. So I'm a believer that God has a place for each child and one size does not fit all in education. So I love and support educators wherever God has called them to serve.

[Linda] I love that you've had such a vast and varying experience and it makes your book all that much more relevant. That fits so well with what we're doing at Teach 4 the Heart, where we have teachers in Christian schools and public schools, all over the place. In fact, you're the one that was able to reach out to me. How did you find out about Teach 4 the Heart?

[Jackie] Well, I was doing my research for my book. I spent almost a year doing the research. I knew while I was doing my Master’s that this is something that God was calling me to do. It was very clearly needed to support Christian teachers spiritually, emotionally, and practically. I mean, the whole time I was getting my Master’s, I just saw it. And so I'm doing the research for the book, it's January. I'm sitting in my bed and I'm looking up things online and I came to your website.

[Jackie] I saw the front page, I started scrolling through, and I started to cry. I was so touched by what you were doing for two reasons. Number one, I know the needs of our teachers, and you are responding to that. The need is so great. I'm working with teachers across the United States right now. I'm hearing it coast to coast, north to south. I talked to a girl in Hawaii recently, they need what you're doing. So I'm so grateful. And then I was also crying because that was the exact same vision that God had given me in terms of supporting teachers, spiritually, emotionally and with practical help in the classroom, so that was really cool.

[Jackie] So I immediately took two of your free classes. I took Classroom Management 101. Fantastic, well done. Thank you. And I also took Teach with Faith, Not Fear. Don't teach in fear, that's not good. They were both super helpful. Took lots of notes. It was like yes, yes, yes.

[Jackie] So anybody who's listening right now, what Linda is doing is fantastic. I highly recommend it. Take all of her classes. I've already paid the money to sign up for your summit in September. I cannot wait. And I'm telling everybody I talk to, to sign up for this.

[Linda] Oh yeah, we are so excited about the summit. And as I was reading through your book, so many of the things that you mentioned, were directly tied in. It's so great. I'm so excited to have this conversation where we feel so much on the same page in our goal to help teachers. For those of you that aren't aware, we are having an upcoming Christian Educators Virtual Summit that will be completely free all weekend long, September 6th through 8th, so it's coming up. So we’re really excited about that.

[Linda] But we are here to talk about your book, and in particular, just some of the advice that you have for teachers. Your book is called The Power of the Positive Teacher. What is your overall message that you are wanting to get out to teachers? Why did you write this book?

[Jackie] I wrote it for a couple of reasons. Obviously, at God's prompting and I spent as much time praying as I spent writing.  I mean that very sincerely because it needed to be what He wanted to say to teachers around the world, not just America's teachers, but what He wanted to say. I say this with all humility, I tried to type up what He wanted me to say. And so I tell everybody when they get a book, “If you love it, all glory to God. If it's boring or you don't like it, sorry, my fault.”

[Jackie] It was really normal that the doorbell would ring and somebody would be on the doorsteps like, "Hey, is Mr. Crouse home?" And it would be somebody who had been on his football team or in his high school civics class years ago. "Hey, Mr. Crouse. Just want to tell you I graduated from law school. Thanks for what you did for me." Because when I was growing up, we didn't have email and Facebook and all that stuff. So the way you would connect is just either call somebody on the phone or stop by their house.

[Jackie] So when my father passed away, several of the people who had been in his classes 30, 40, 50 years ago, contacted my sisters and me and said, "Can we come to your dad's service?" He meant that much to them. And so we kept having to make the venue bigger and bigger. At first we thought it was just going to be this little venue at my parents’ assisted living place and then we ended up having it at Stanford University. And we ended up having it in the faculty lounge, because we needed that much space and because he had been on staff there at one point, and they said, "Yes, we remember Jack Crouse, we would love to host this."

[Jackie] Anyway, so several people from his classes came and each one of them had asked in advance, "Could we speak at your father’s service?” We thought, "Wow, my goodness, what a blessing." He was my hero, and I'm heartbroken that he's gone, but I'm listening to these people at the service and each one of them had silver in their hair. Some of them are grandparents in their own right, and they're talking about the impact he had on their lives 30, 40, and 50 years ago. I sat there and I thought, "Father, that's the teacher I want to be," that I had to have that positive of an impact on a young person's life. Talk about a legacy, so that was the first genesis.

[Jackie] The second genesis is during that same period of time, I was working on my Master’s. As I said, I did it all in the public school system. And I was doing a lot of school visits and I made a point of going to high performing schools, middle performing schools, and then some schools that were at risk, because I really wanted to get a feel for everything. So when I share this, I'm not just sharing from schools that are at risk, or our Blue Ribbon Schools. I saw this across the board, and I saw some things that broke my heart. When I say break my heart, I mean I'd be driving home that day after school visit, sobbing. One night I was sobbing at three o'clock in the morning over what I had seen, after spending a day in a classroom observation situation, and it's just like, “The system is broken and I don't see any hope.”

[Jackie] I'm a really optimistic girl, so that's not my personality type. So for me to be that broken and that sad, it's wow. But anyway, so as I'm sitting on my couch at 3:00 AM crying, the Lord really convicted me lovingly and gently. He said, "Is anything too difficult for me?"

[Jackie] It's like, "Of course not Lord.”  And He really convicted me that I was just looking in the natural, right? He said, "You're not factoring in what I can do through my people." And it's like, of course. I mean, Jesus Christ is always the answer. And of course in the public school system, we're educating everybody. We need to follow the law, we need to follow our contract. Absolutely, absolutely.

[Jackie] Daniel and Joseph knew that in the Old Testament. They were Godly men working in pagan organizations, but they knew how to stand for God, and follow the leadership that they were under, and they did it without compromising. So there is a way to do that. This is not a new thought of being a Christian in a secular environment, and how do we make that fit? So that's where the book came from. As I prayed and as I'm having people buying it and reading it, the Lord just kept bringing things to mind.

[Jackie] And it's neat when I'm hearing back from teachers, secular teachers, Christian school teachers, they're all saying the same thing. It's like, this is truth and I say that humbly, giving God all the glory.

[Linda] You touched on so many important topics in your book. What are some of the things that you are most concerned about, as you talked to teachers across the country?

[Jackie] It is interesting in my position now because I do teacher training and I'm meeting with teachers and talking with teachers across the U.S. There are lots of things in education that need to be fixed, there are lots of issues, but the thing that God has brought to my attention is teacher stress. And our teachers are just overwhelmed. It's gone way past just teaching the curriculum. They've got trauma babies, and the trauma babies are across the board and in the private school system.

[Jackie] If those of you who are listening are teachers in the public school system, I know some of you joke with me that like, "You guys had it easy in the private Christian school." No, dear friends, we’re facing the exact same issues that you're seeing in the public school. We've got suicide, we've got depression, we've got families, chaotic situations. We've got homelessness, we've got hunger, we've got everything. So our schools may be smaller, but we've got the same issues.

[Jackie] But teachers are just so stressed and burned out. We know the statistics, 50% of our young teachers are leaving within the first five years. That breaks my heart. Certainly some of them you get into something and you try it. You go, "Okay, I'm sorry. That's not for me." Absolutely. Honey, go find what's for you. If this isn't rocking your world, you need to go find your passion.

[Jackie] But what breaks my heart is the ones who came into the profession who love teaching, who love their kids but they just can't, they're just burnt out and they just can't even function anymore.

[Linda] What do you recommend for teachers? I know you share a lot in your book. What can they do if they're already feeling burnt out?

[Jackie] Yeah, and that's very, very real. So the first thing I'd say is, "You're not alone.” I would also say that you have to get all the way back to your foundation. It's all about Jesus Christ. This job is too big for you, and it's too big for me. And it's getting bigger by the day.

[Jackie] We don't have control over what our school boards are doing. We don't have control over what's happening in our trauma babies’ homes, we don't have control over the economy. There are a bunch of things I can't control. What I can control is me. When I start getting overwhelmed and burnt out, it tells me that I disconnected from Jesus Christ. I have to get back to my source.

[Jackie] My book starts with, “What's your foundation? What's the foundation of your classroom? Is it a philosophy? Is it how beautiful I can make my classroom and put all my pictures on Pinterest? What is your foundation?” Or is your foundation, “Jesus Christ, Father I need you. I cannot do this work without you”? I truly believe we are missionaries and I truly believe that our classroom is the mission field. There are 90 million kids out there depending on us. And for a lot of them, we are the only Christian that they're in contact with.

[Jackie] Outside of us, all they see is what they know about Christians or what they see on TV. You watch The Big Bang Theory, which is one of my favorite shows, and the Christian in that, they make fun of that person. That person is a fool, that person is really not a loving person and all this other stuff and so they need to have authentic Christians in life.

[Jackie] So the first thing we need to do is make Jesus Christ our foundation in our classroom and then we need to be abiding in Him. And how do we do that? That's through prayer. I learned that early on and I'm very honest in my book about when I let myself get burned out. I just blew up. It was just like wheels fell off, right?

[Linda] Right.

[Jackie] I had to get all the way back and so that's when I got real serious about prayer. I listened to your podcast, Linda, on prayer and that was fantastic. Good for you. I was listening to it last night when I was making dinner, and it really blessed me. I think prayer is something that wherever we are in our walk with Christ, I think even if you talked to Billy Graham, if he was still on planet earth, he'd say, "Through our whole lives, it's just something that we will always struggle with and always have to come back to." And it makes sense because the devil does not want us in communion with God. Because we're powerful when we're talking to God, because we've invited the God of the universe into the situation. Right? So he's going to throw distractions at us. I never care about how dirty the kitchen is until I'm about to go into prayer and then it's like, "Oh, I should get those dishes done." Right?

[Linda] Yes.

[Jackie] Right, or the phone rings or the dog barks or something happens. Anyway, so then I'm a product of burnout and I'm very honest about that so I had to get up. It's like, "Okay, I need God in my life every single day before I go to work," because I had trauma babies in my classroom, and I had tremendous stress that I was under because of various things that I won't go into.

[Jackie] That meant I was getting up at 5:00 AM for my time with the Lord and then getting my youngins up around 6:00, getting in the shower, etc., and it radically changed my life. And it balances and that meant I had to go to bed earlier. That meant I couldn't stay up late and watch my best programs. And you know what? 20 years later, I'm still so glad I started doing that. I don't miss the programs. I don't miss the time I'm going on Instagram. I had to go to bed early, so I could get up early, so I could spend time with the Lord in His Word in prayer. And then praying throughout the day, seeking His wisdom for every decision.

[Jackie] I listened to your podcast on trauma and highly recommend it. Linda had a wonderful guest on, she talked about trauma and I had lots of trauma students, but this particular one really hit me when I listened to your podcast.

[Jackie] I had this young girl in fifth grade, she came in to my classroom toward the end of the year, and she was the most hardened, rude, obnoxious, dripping with attitude, foul-mouthed tough cookie. And so I'm trying to work with her and trying to bring her along, but it's just destroying the class every time she burst out with something and then, learning stops and we're trying to deal with the thing.

[Jackie] One of the things I talk about in my classroom is not ever doing the drama in front of the students because that's like TV. Let’s watch this teacher and student go at it for a while, that's a fun power play. So one day I just got to the end of my rope with this dear girl. And so I said, “So-and-so, meet me in the hall.” I got my students going on something because I'm not going to have the back-and-forth in front of my students. The teacher never wins in that situation.

[Jackie] So anyway, I went out in the hallway and I'm fixing to have a conversation with this little girl, because I am now mad. And the Lord just stopped me and He said, "Stop. Ask her what's wrong." And I tell you what, Linda, that hit me like a ton of bricks. It was like cold water in the face. And so I said, "Honey, what's going on?" And this tough girl, she just burst into tears, threw her arms around me, and just buried her face in my shoulder.

[Jackie] And it was like, wow. When she could finally stop sobbing enough to tell me what was going on, she said she had a single mom and her mom's, for lack of a better way, financial plan to provide for her and her daughter was that they would live with a boyfriend until the boyfriend decided he had enough of them. And then they would have a fight. He’d kick them out. They'd be on the street for a while, she'd find a new boyfriend, and they’d move in with him. And that's what this little 5th grade girl’s life had been like. And that morning, the fight had come and she and mom were living in the car again.

[Jackie] I didn't know this. My principal didn't know this. The counselor at the school didn't know this. None of us knew this about this dear girl. And I am so thankful that the Lord said, “Stop, Jackie, stop. This is not about you. This is not a little power play. This is not a 5th grader just messing up your math lesson. Stop and listen to this little girl.” I'm so grateful that she felt confident enough that she could just dissolve into my arms.

[Linda] What a powerful story and you just shared so many great things for us. And they all center around the advice that prayer is so important, right? That we are asking God for help and letting His power flow through us, depending on Him for wisdom. And I know I personally, I get so distracted by the to-do list. That to-do list is all encompassing for me sometimes. And it feels like I don't have time to set aside time to pray. But I’m trying to remind myself, this is the most important work that I can do.

[Linda] Prayer is more important than everything else that I have on my to-do list. When you got up early in the morning to pray and you made that a habit, did you do anything that helped you stay awake and alert? I know there have been times that I've done that where it's been helpful and then there are other times where I'm just falling asleep and it does not go well. Do you have any advice on that matter?

[Jackie] Well, the first thing I'd like to say to you, Linda, is, as a mama with a new baby, cut yourself a lot of slack, girl, okay? Because seriously, when I was teaching, my kids were older. So my youngest was in first grade when I went back into the classroom. When my baby was a baby, I thought, "Oh, I really want to get up early, because that's what Jesus did. And I want to start my day right for my family, etc.”

[Jackie] I had a ninja baby, and this little guy could get out of his crib. So as soon as he would hear my feet on the ground, he was out of his crib, and at my side, and then we were off and running. So there was a period of time when my babies were little, when my prayer time was when they went down for a nap or my prayer time was when I was driving.

[Jackie] So the first thing I would like to say to you specifically, and anybody else who maybe is a new mom and teaching, is cut yourself some slack and do the best you can. But when I did start, I was able to keep that habit of early in the morning. First of all, it was a quality decision. It was like, “I cannot function without this.” Almost like, “I can't go to school without brushing my teeth.” I would never do that.

[Jackie]  Of course, I wasn't 100% and that would always be the day I come in at the last second and there's a parent with a crisis. And I'm like, "Father, please help me. I know, I didn't pray this morning, please, please help me." And He was gracious and He was kind and He did.

[Jackie] So the first thing I want to say is "Okay, we're not going to be legalistic about this. We're going to cut each other some slack." But things that did help me were making the quality decision, going to bed a little bit earlier, and having all my Bible study materials where I was going to be doing my time. So I had a little chair downstairs and I had my Bible and if I was doing a devotional study or whatever it was, everything was there. So I wasn't at five o'clock going around the house, trying to find things and then getting frustrated. Also, a cup of coffee. I'm a firm believer in the value of caffeine, love caffeine. That helped me stay awake.

[Jackie] And then I also really prayed and said, "Father, I want to do this, but I need your help. Because I'm willing, but the flesh is weak." And of course we're tired, right? So I asked the Lord, “Please help me to stay awake. Please give me a love for your word.” And that was really important because I was starting to act like a SWAT team like, “Get in, get it done, get out.” It's like, “Off my to-do-list, onto my next thing.” And I thought, "Wow, Father, I don't want to treat Your Word this way. It's too important." I mean, like you just said, this is the most important part of the day. Linda, this is the best thing you can be doing for your children and your husband and your students and the people who follow you.

[Jackie] And so I asked Him to give me a love for His Word. And to help me keep this commitment, and He has been faithful. Having other people to hold you accountable is a great thing. But really, just having all the stuff I needed in the place I needed it was helpful. Then, keeping a prayer journal, and seeing what God did was helpful. So I've got almost 30 years of prayer journals right now. And that is super cool.

[Linda] That's awesome.

[Jackie] Yeah, we forget and think, "Oh, what have you done for me lately, God?" Then you go back and see in ‘98, this is what God did. So keeping a prayer journal is a really cool thing.

[Linda] Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that. If the listeners walk away from this conversation with nothing else but thinking, “I need to pray this year,” then I'm thrilled with this conversation. But Jackie, you mentioned to me before we got on here that you did have a few things you want to mention. You said there were some misconceptions that you noticed amongst Christian educators that you wanted to clear up. What were those?

[Jackie] Yeah. Oh, thank you. We were living in Seattle Tacoma area for the last 20 years, and it's King County and Pierce County. They are the two most unchurched counties in America. So I point that out to say it was really uncool to be a Christian in the Pacific Northwest.

[Linda] Okay.

[Jackie] And it's a lonely place to be a Christian. Now I've moved down here to the Bible Belt and I'll have teachers telling me they’re Christian teachers teaching in the public school system, and they may have a Christian principal and they may have a Christian superintendent. Our little local newspaper puts a devotional in their newspaper, it's like, "Oh my gosh, this is so cool." But in the Pacific Northwest, they're really getting persecuted up there. I could I go on and on about teachers who have lost their jobs, or they've been bullied and harassed because their principal just really didn't like Christians. And as soon as he or she found out they were a Christian, really tried to get them out of there. If you're listening to this, please pray for teachers in those parts of the country.

[Jackie] There was that high school football coach who got fired for praying after the football games. And that was my community. So teachers especially up there were really afraid. Christian teachers were really afraid to ever share their faith or even let people know that they were Christians, thinking, "Oh, I got to leave that in the parking lot because I'll lose my job." They felt powerless. They felt lonely. I'm the only one on my campus because I don't talk about it. 

[Jackie] Well, these are lies from the devil. You are not powerless. You are not alone. You're certainly not powerless because you plus God are an unbeatable team. Right? Just two people praying- you praying with your heavenly Father.

[Jackie] You are also not alone, as I was doing the research for the book. 37% of teachers nationwide who work in the public school system identify as Christians with a serious faith. They go to church at least once a week. Okay, that's a pretty serious Christian, 37%.

[Linda] Yeah.

[Jackie] Now, if you add in Christians who go about once a month, or at least on Christmas and Easter, the number is probably 50% or higher, I would say. So you're not alone on your campus. Find them, find the other Christians. And then the other thing I would say is, I think it's impossible for us to leave our faith in the car. If you really love the Lord Jesus Christ, it shows in who you are.

[Jackie] It's who you are. It's like your DNA. It's like leaving your skin in the car when you go to work, which you would never do and that would be totally gross, so please don't do that. And yes, legally, we're not allowed to proselytize, I totally get that. Like I said, I listened to your podcast or your class twice on that and that was super helpful. But there's so many things that we can be legally doing.

[Jackie] I can pray in the privacy of my own heart no matter who my principal is, even if my principal just despises Christians. And there are principals out there, I know there are and I'm sorry if you're in that situation. If you're in that situation, I’d like to encourage you that the Lord never makes a mistake. So if He has you on that campus, maybe you are the agent of change on that campus. I have seen God do amazing things through the prayers of one or two people. Find the other Christians on your campus, start praying.

[Jackie] A lot of times at lunchtime, teachers will go out for a little walk. They don't know if you're doing a prayer walk or just chatting, right? Again, don't proselytize, that's crossing the line. We want to stay on the correct side of the law. We want to be good stewards. We want to follow the law. We want to follow our contracts. But certainly if a student asked us, "Gee, Mrs. Matthews, are you a Christian?" "Yes, I am." "Do you believe that the Bible is true?" "Yes, I do." "How come?" I can answer those questions. I can say things like, “Well, people who are Christians believe” or at Christmas or Easter time, “Here's what Christians celebrate.”

[Jackie] I just had a nice chat with my neighbor next door, who is a lovely Christian woman. She just retired as an art teacher after 35 years and she said all of her students knew she was a Christian. She never said anything. But they just knew, because of the way she carried herself, because of the words she chose to use. She didn't swear, she was kind and loving and compassionate. She was just being a Jesus person, just living the way that we're supposed to live. And her students just knew it and her parents just knew it.

[Jackie] The other thing I would love to say to you Christian teachers, wherever you're serving is, you are the answer to a desperate parent's prayer. I wish that you could see what I see. When I have my girlfriends who have kids in the public school system and they find out that their child has a Christian teacher, there is a celebration in that house. They see that as “Father, thank you.” They're praying for you. I hope that encourages you because there are parents out there who are just so grateful for you.

[Linda] Wow, thank you so much for all those words of encouragement. If you guys do want to check out that Teach with Faith, Not Fear training, we partnered with Christian Educators to do that. And there's just so much practical help if you're struggling with, especially in public schools, what is legal? What isn't legal? How do I reach out and be a genuine Christian without crossing the lines? Jackie, you're going to be offering your book 50% off right, is that correct?

[Jackie] That is correct. It's available on Amazon, ebook and print. And just a little side note, I did this to bless teachers. I also did this to help raise funds for a Kenya school that my students raised money for. They've now graduated 2,000 kids in a Christian School in Eldoret, Kenya. So if you buy it on Amazon, $11 goes to help the school. That maybe doesn't sound like much, but it's only $20 a month for tuition. So if you buy two books, that's a child getting an education for a month and I love these kids. I don't know if I'm ever going to see them this side of heaven, but I love them.

[Jackie] But I do want to support teachers and I know funds are tight. So on my website, I will have the book for 50% off. Whichever way you want to do it, I am grateful.

[Linda] All right. We'll link to both places. There is only a limited number available at that 50% off price, so depending on when you’re listening to this, you can check out both of those and see if it's still available.

[Linda] And Jackie, your book is for everyone, right? I mean, you've already shared you've taught different grades and you've taught different places. Is this for a specific teacher or is it for everybody?

[Jackie] It is really for everyone, because it's about your heart and your walk. So it's not grade specific. So you might teach preschool, you might teach senior AP calculus, you might teach Sunday school, you might be a youth leader in your church, you might do a Boys and Girls Club after school or some kind of an after school, any place where a Christian is working with young people. I believe that this book will be a blessing and I and I say that because I give God all the glory.

[Linda] Yes, if you found this conversation encouraging and helpful, and you want more encouragement, more practical tips and help, then definitely check out Jackie's book, The Power of the Positive Teacher. Before we go, if you could say one thing to our listeners, as they're heading back to the classroom, what would you like to say?

[Jackie] I would say, “Don't go it alone. Take God with you into the classroom, abide in Him.” How do you abide? You pray, you seek Him through the day, you seek Him through the night. He will be the best teaching partner you can possibly have. Those things that are impossible? He will make a way. Prayer changes things, prayer changes people, prayer changes situations, prayer changes our hearts. Prayer changes things, so abide in Him. Take Him with you this year, and watch and see what He will do in your life and the lives of your students.

[Linda] Yes, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for those encouraging words. 

[Linda] I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation with Jackie. I love her spirit and her desire to encourage teachers. I hope you do feel encouraged and empowered and most importantly, inspired to spend time with God in prayer and really abide in Him this year.

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[Marilyn] Yeah, so I have been a teacher in Chicago since 2003, and I’ve been running Teachers Who Pray full time for the past two years. But I worked in Chicago Public Schools, for about 15 years and I've worked in mostly elementary school, K through 8th. I also was briefly a counselor for alumni students who I had taught that were in high school and doing high school persistence work. But Teachers Who Pray was something that I felt was missing in my experience as an early new teacher, and I felt like I needed a community of believers to just build me up at work and help me get through a lot of the tough situations that most new teachers encounter.

[Linda] But we are excited to talk about a couple of the topics here today. So I picked out three. Like I said, there are so many great ones, but we'll just start with these. In lesson number four, you talk about crossing the street on race and then in lesson five, you talk about crossing the street on class. You talk about how racial reconciliation is a spiritual mandate and how serving the fatherless, the widows, and the poor is a key role in God's economy. Can you share a little bit about this and about some of the specific actionable ways that teachers can make strides in these areas?

[Marilyn] Yes. So I find that the discussion about race, people either really lean into it and want to talk about it or they just don't, and it becomes awkward. So I put this in here because I felt like Jesus crossed the street on race all the time. It wasn't race as we know it today, but there were boundaries. They were cultural boundaries and tribal boundaries. And when he came in and he healed people, he healed everybody. He reached out and loved everybody. And there were situations in the Bible where he crossed barriers, like the Samaritan woman. She says, "Why are you talking to a Samaritan woman? Jews have nothing to do with Samaritans." And that was just how it was.

[Marilyn] And he's like, "Not exactly. I am the Lord and I am reaching out to you." And so I feel like teachers are in a very special position to cross the street on race in a way that is maybe different than people in other professions. if you're a white teacher serving black students, your job is to serve and to love and to reach out to families. Like you're doing the Lord's work as you are doing your job. And it just opens that door for you to do those things. And likewise, if you're a black teacher serving white children or children of other races, it's your job to cross the street, it's your job to reach out and try to understand the culture in a non-judgmental way, in a way that empowers people and helps them.

[Marilyn] But also if you're on the receiving end too, like I say, no matter the race of origin, everybody has to give a little bit. And so if you are in a position where you feel maybe you are the oppressed group or whatever, you have to give grace to the person who you see in a dominant, more advantaged, privileged position. You also have to give them grace to allow them to come into your life. And so I try to unpack it more in the book, but I do believe it's a spiritual mandate because how can you love your neighbor as yourself if you don't reach out to your neighbor who might be of a different race? That is the whole story of the Good Samaritan. He reached out to someone who he shouldn’t even culturally have been dealing with. So I don't know if that really gets to your question. I was trying to break it down in short bits.

[Linda] Yeah, that was helpful. So do you think that it really just starts with getting to know people and getting to know who they are, about their culture, their history, what they enjoy, and just kind of building those relationships. Is that where it starts?

[Marilyn] I believe so. I believe the best thing a person can do, if they don't have any friends that don't look like them, then you need to pursue friendships, genuine friendships, close friendships. And that will definitely open the door to many opportunities because once you build those personal relationships with people across racial lines, then you can probe and you can ask the questions that you might have always wanted to ask. And it's a safe environment. You have a relationship where you know that they trust you and that they will respect your inquiry. And so I believe that's where it starts. It's hard to really cross the street on race in a big, systemic way if you don't have any personal friends who are from a different culture or from a different part of the world.

[Marilyn] And that's really where it starts, and you see Jesus, he's reaching out in a very personal way to people, like in the story of the Good Samaritan. He went to Samaria, spent two days with Samaritan people, and that was unheard of. Who does that? Well, once he met the woman at the well, she changed her perspective on what Jewish men were like. And then he changed the perspective of all the people in the village because they all came out to meet Jesus and they saw how loving and caring he was. And then he actually would stay in their homes and eat their food and just sit around and get to know them.

[Marilyn] And that's what I feel like we're really missing in this country, in education.  I drive into this school and I work there, but I don't have any connection with the community or the people there at all. It would drastically change your practice if you changed that habit and you got to know your students and the families and maybe going to a birthday party or maybe spending a little time at a basketball game. Sitting with the families of students or things like that makes a huge difference. And that's what I believe is one of the reasons why public education in particular is struggling is because there's such a disconnect, a lot of times, between the students and the teachers who are teaching.

[Linda] That's really helpful. I like how you give those few examples about what this might look like. So maybe you are intentionally attending sporting events at your school and not just sitting with another teacher, you’re going out and trying to get to know the families. I'll be honest, as an introverted person, that is so scary to me. But it is so important. And I think just those relationships just continue to develop. Are there any other practical ways you can think of for teachers who maybe don't live near their districts? They're not in that community a lot except for when they're at school. Are there any other ways that they can be intentional about connecting with the community or with the parents and the students?

[Marilyn] So there's an endless number of things that you can do. So for example, I'm an African American woman. I worked in a Hispanic community. It was 12 miles away from my house, but there were things that I could do. So I wrote a grant and I got some books in English and in Spanish, it was the same book but with different translations. And I started a parent book club. So the parents who spoke only in Spanish read the same book that I read. And then there were enough parents who were bilingual to translate for this book club. And it was my way of crossing the street on race. It was totally my way of doing that. And it was great. It was a great book and they just really enjoyed that opportunity.

[Marilyn] But it did take a little bit of effort and it required me to stay after school longer, one day a week. But it was so worth it. And yeah, so there's tons of examples like that that you can do. The most important thing is that the heart has to want that. You have to want that and want community and want to not be “the other.” You want to be us, not just me and them.

[Linda] And I can just imagine how powerful that must have been. Even more powerful, like you said, with just the mix of cultures. But no matter, even if you are of the same race or same culture, just that power, really getting to know your students and their parents.  I can just imagine how much easier that made it when you had to deal with issues and just to be able to understand them and they knew you and all the rich discussions I'm sure that came out of it. That's an amazing idea. And every teacher has different things that draw them, different passions. And so maybe if you can find a way to connect around one of your passions, then it will be something that is easier for you to do, right? And won't get left by the wayside when things get a little bit busy.

[Marilyn] Exactly. And then just learning. I was the choir director at one point and so the music selection that I selected wasn't just songs that I knew, that were part of my cultural tradition or background or something that I was nostalgic about. There were songs that the kids recommended and songs in a different language. I can sing a song in a different language if I practice hard enough. So those are the things that really make a difference. And involving the parents in helping you in the classroom, like, “Why don't you come in and volunteer for a day or during this time?” There are just so many endless ways to build community while you're in that building.

[Marilyn] And I can truly say some of the parents that I connected with the most were parents that I had very little in common with, but I just made that extra effort to reach out to them and to their children, so I became like a part of the family. I got those invitations to birthday parties and sometimes I could go and sometimes I couldn't go, but I wanted to be there because I cared about them and I enjoyed their company. And so those are things that, when your heart is open, then whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, people are drawn. It's magnetic when your heart is open toward people, and you'll find yourself building wonderful relationships without having to go that much beyond your level of comfort because people come to you.

[Linda] That's amazing. We talk a lot about building relationships and I would imagine, you never know what Gospel opportunities or Kingdom work that's going to open up as well, just as you get to know people outside of school. That's amazing. Well, I feel like we could talk about this forever, but I did want to talk a little bit about one of your other lessons and that was lesson number 10. You talked a little bit about discipline and you talk about the goal of discipline being not to punish but to restore and maintain peaceful relationships. And I completely agree. Can you explain that a little bit for us?

[Marilyn] Yes. So, in America, we have gotten used to a very strong penal system. We're tough on crime and we're tough on guns and we're tough on drugs and all of these things. But if you look at Christ, he recognized that a lot of misbehavior was rooted in hurt, was rooted in a cry for something. Christ told people, you love God and love each other and take care of one another. But when there was time for punishment, or I should say discipline, he was very restorative. He wanted people to be restored back to himself and back to God.

[Marilyn] And I didn't put this particular example in the book, but when you think about the woman who was found caught in adultery, her punishment according to the law was death, and he could have stoned her according to the law because she was caught in adultery. Interestingly enough, the Roman system of law though at the time said that you can't just kill someone. They have to be tried. So the Roman system was even more gracious than the actual law. But Jesus chose neither one of those systems. He didn't choose the Roman system of giving her a trial. He didn't choose the law of stoning her. He said, "He who has no sin cast the first stone." And he was the one, the only one who had no sin. So he very well could have cast the first stone. So the point is, he spoke to her and he said, "You know what, go and sin no more." His whole point was, "I don't want to hurt you. I want you to be whole. I want you to be better."

[Marilyn] And so I think we need to take a little more of a holistic, creative stance toward disciplining children and find out what is it? Why you are not behaving properly? Just going back to the woman at the well. He totally could've slammed her for her promiscuity and damned her, but he spoke to her and he told her about the living water and that he was the one that could provide water. She wouldn't thirst anymore, that all of her needs would be met through him, and it changed her life. So in the classroom setting, obviously we're not able to deliver the spiritual context in the classroom with students directly, but indirectly, we can take the time to unpack these behaviors and try to work with students to help them get over that desire to act out.

[Marilyn] And I've seen time and time again, that it is effective. Again, it's a matter of your heart and to know what you actually believe that these behaviors can change or that you have enough faith in the student to know and believe that they can get better. And there are things that you can do and I talk about them in the book. Different systems you can set up to be more restorative. But I just imagine if God wasn't restorative to me. I have to forgive my students when they act out because when I act out, God has forgiven me. He doesn't throw me under the bus. And this is particularly important because in this country we have a disproportionate group of students, black students, Latino students, that don't get those graces.

[Marilyn] And as I said, I've worked in schools with different racial makeups and I've seen it with my very own eyes where, oh, a student of a certain racial background acts up and they get suspended or expelled like almost immediately. And then another student with a different skin tone does the same thing or very similar, and they get talked to, they get counseled and they get maybe a parent phone call or conference, but they're not kicked out of the school. They're not suspended or expelled. And it's just, again, all of these values kind of intertwine where we have to see kids as a whole, not just what paint God put on them, on the exterior, but they are all valuable.

[Linda] Absolutely.

[Marilyn] Yeah. So I can go on about discipline, but it does take a restorative heart to implement these types of strategies that I mentioned in the book. And it's not something that you can just flip a switch and everything is better. Like the disciples-

[Linda] It's a lot of work.

[Marilyn] It's a lot of work, and the disciples were classic examples. They didn't always listen to Jesus. They didn't always pay attention. They had unbelief. Judas was stealing from the treasury bag. Peter was impulsive and he made some mistakes, like denying Christ and cutting off the soldier's ear and making decisions that he shouldn't have made. Nathaniel said when he heard about Jesus, he's like, "Nothing good can even come from this. I don't believe he's the savior." But he still chose them, and Jesus still took them under his wing, and poured into them until we have the word of God through a lot of their writings now. And you know, I just believe that there's a little bit of God in every person.

[Linda] Well, we are created in his image. Right?

[Marilyn] Exactly.

[Linda] The goal in a classroom is to restore those relationships, right? For you and the students and each other to all be in a community where you can learn together. So when we make that the priority of the discipline and other conversations, that can be so transformative. And another reason that this is so helpful is because, as you talk about in your book, a lot of times the behavior on the outside is like the tip of the iceberg. It's not really what's causing the problem. It's just the outward symptoms, and we're throwing Band-Aids on these gaping wounds. And when we can take time to really get underneath and get to the issues, then it's so much more helpful.

[Linda] More of these strategies are in your book. We also talk about them in our Classroom Management 101 course. I do have one question for you, though. What would you say to a teacher whose class is just out of control? They're frustrated and they're worried, thinking, “Well, if there are no consequences, how are we ever going to make progress?” Does this approach mean there are never any consequences or what would you say to a teacher like that?

[Marilyn] Yes, that's a great question. And trust me, I've had my moments where I'm just like, “Can I get some support in this classroom and real consequences?’ And so I don't think that consequences are in opposition to the philosophy of Jesus or his practice because we know the Bible says that, "The wages of sin is death." There is a consequence for bad behavior. You see a student acting out and maybe not doing his homework or distracting in class and he’s preventing other kids from learning, right? The consequence for that child, in time, is going to be some form of death in terms of maybe not learning how to read, which would lead to bad outcomes in life or not being able to have good self control in a work environment and not being able to keep a job or get into college or whatever.

[Marilyn] So the idea is that that's the ultimate consequence you are trying to avoid for the child. Okay. So you are going in and saying, “How can I restore this child so they don't suffer the ultimate consequence?” Because I see it all the time where if these behaviors aren't checked, they're going to be the end of the kid. There's no way that they're going to be functioning adults if this behavior just continues to persist over time throughout their school career. They do need consequences, but the consequence is in order for them to get in right standing with the class and with themselves. And so there are ways to get at that. There are, like I mentioned in the book, you could have peace circles, you could have a special part of the class where you have to sit there or you might have to be removed from the class.

[Marilyn] But that is all something that the student has to know and be a part of and know that we're not removing you out of this class because we don't like you, because we hate you and we want you to leave our school. You're a burden to us. You're a nuisance and we really wish you weren't here. And I think that is the key, when kids know why they're being removed out of love and not because we'd be better off without you. You mess up everything and you're a loser, and we just wish you would go away kind of thing. And I think too often that's how kids feel when they're disciplined or when they  have consequences. But I feel like we have to go above and beyond to make it very clear that the purpose of this consequence is to restore you, to make you miss us, to make you want to be back in community with the class.

[Marilyn] And all of that is conversation, it's a culture. And when the class is completely out of control, I feel that that conversation and that culture hasn't been had effectively, and that does take some coaching. That does take a lot of effort. Sometimes it takes a second person in the classroom, depending on what's going on with the students and how disruptive. Sometimes you'll have a student who's dangerous, like behaviorally dangerous and they need to be escorted out. So I am very careful not to say that we don't believe in consequences, we absolutely never believe in a suspension. There are no complete absolutes. But the tone of the classroom has to be a restorative tone. It's a posture, it's an ambiance and that makes the discipline feel less about punishment and more about love and restoration and community.

[Linda] I love that so much. It doesn't start with the strategy, it starts with the teacher's frame of mind, and what is my goal? Yes, my goal is to create a great classroom environment, but part of that is loving these kids, restoring these kids, making sure they're all this vital part of it. And I think just always going back to that, right? Every discipline decision, as you are coming up with your classroom management plan, you're always going back to that. How can I create this system that's going to restore and help us all create this community? That's so wonderful.

[Marilyn] Yeah. You can see how they fold in on each other, right? You take one of the lessons away and it weakens your ability to do the other lesson. Right? Like my son, he's five and sometimes he's naughty. But I'm going to discipline him in a way that shows love, but also gets him to realize his boundaries and make sure he keeps those boundaries. And that's the same heart that I'm encouraging teachers to take with other people's children. You may need a break from the kids, and you may be super upset about something they have done, but the end goal is to restore that child to prevent them from the ultimate, -like if they take that behavior to the limit- where that's going to land them, and that's death. And so you're protecting the child because you want to help steer them into the right direction on the right trajectory for life and that's discipline done right.

[Linda] That's so wonderful. Well, I know we just scratched the surface on these issues, but I think you really gave us so much to think about. I really appreciate it and I don't know if everyone knows this yet, but you're going to be speaking again at our coming Christian Educators Summit with CEAI in September. Is that right?

[Marilyn] Yes, that is right.

[Linda] So you guys will definitely have to sign up for that and you can hear Marilyn again on some of these same issues and other ones related to her book, The Master Teacher. Like she said, the lessons do tie into each other. So we've talked about two of them, but there are so many more great ones in the book. Before we sign off Marilyn, is there anything else you'd like to share with teachers?

[Marilyn] Thank you so much for having me. And I would just encourage teachers again to go to Teachers Who Pray for ongoing support and to start their own prayer group at schools. We have over 140 different chapters of prayer groups right there in the school and it's legal to do if you do it right. So we talk about how to pray and bring prayer back into public schools legally, making sure that God is in our practice and in our community and that's how we're going to really make a difference in education.

[Linda] And yes, definitely go check that out.  Well, thank you so much, Marilyn. We so appreciate you being here.

[Marilyn] Thank you.

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Have you ever thought of teaching as a ministry?

What exactly does this even mean?

Well, think about church. You're probably involved in a ministry or two there, right? Maybe you work with youth or help in the nursery or make meals for new moms. All of these ministries are ways to serve God and make a difference.

But that's how we should view teaching, too - as a way to serve God. As an opportunity God has given you to do to make a difference spiritually in other people's lives.

Let's consider a few verses that illustrate this point:

christ as the boss

You should, because in God's eyes your teaching has spiritual significance. Consider Colossians 3:23-24:

"And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, knowing that from the Lord, you will receive the reward of the inheritance, for you serve the Lord Christ."

I love this verse because it reminds us that all of our work has a spiritual component to it because we're supposed to be working for God, not for men.

As teachers,  we're always serving so many people. We are serving our students,  parents, administrators, and even fellow teachers. There are so many people we're responsible to that we can easily forget that our ultimate boss is Christ.  He's the one that we actually should be seeking to please above all else,  and He's the one that matters the most.

SALT & LIGHT

Another verse that  can help inform our teaching philosophy is Matthew 5:13-16:

"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden, nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lamp stand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."

These verses teach us that no matter what we're doing, whether we're at work or at home or with our family or with our friends, we are called to be salt and to be light.

In Bible days, salt was used to preserve meat. It would be placed in the meat to  keep it from decaying as quickly.

As Christians, we called to slow down the decay in the culture around us, and to make a difference in that way. We're called to be light, shining forth the light of truth into the darkness.

Honestly, everything we do is a ministry. Serving our family is a ministry, and this concept can change everything. But teaching definitely fits in the category, right? Teaching is a ministry. It's a work we do for God to make a difference in others' lives.

is your life divided?

Both of these scriptures speak to what it means to be a teacher, or at least what it should mean.

But often we don't see it that way because we often fall prey to the fallacy that there is a sacred-secular split, or a private-public split. Meaning, we view religion or faith as part of our private life, but think that it kind of has nothing to do with our public work.

In other words, there's a divide in our lives. We find faith meaningful and important for church, for our private worship, and our private life. But there's almost this divider wall where it doesn't  affect what we do at work. 

It's separate. Faith is for our private lives, and then there's this other world of my work and my job, and my faith doesn't really have anything to do with that.

Well, this may be a common way of thinking in our culture, but it is certainly not Biblical. 

We already looked at a few verses, but all throughout the Bible you'll see that our faith is not supposed to be something that only helps us internally. It's also supposed to change who we are everywhere, both public and private. It must be something so real that we cannot possibly lock it in a box for Sunday and not have it affect us throughout the rest of the week.

god's truths are universal

If we truly believe the Bible, we know that God's truths are universal. He didn't only give us the Bible so that we can worship Him better in our daily devotions at home and at church.

He is the creator, and He designed everything. Therefore, His truths affect everything. They govern all of creation. They're hardwired into the way people think, into the way the world works.

For example, consider the  concept of sowing and reaping. That's a scriptural concept but also a universal truth because that's how God set up the world to work.

Because God's truths are universal, they affect everyone, whether they believe in God or not. They're simply the way God has created the world.

Thus, it's actually quite foolish of us to think that Biblical truths only matter for our private life and that they don't affect what's happening in our school, in our classroom, and all these other things.

what does it mean?

If God's truths are universal and our faith should impact everything we do, what does this look like?

Well, there's a ton we could say. This should change our relationships with our boss, with our students, and with parents. It should impact our work ethic and our resilience. It should show forth in joy and passion and peace amidst the chaos of teaching.

We could go into detail on any of these points, but for now let's focus on one point: making a difference in our students' lives.

MAKING A DIFFERENCE

As teachers, one of our biggest goals is to make a difference in our students' lives. Of course we want to see them succeed academically. We want them to do well in English and math and history and science, but we also want them to walk away from our class better equipped for life than they were when they started.

We want them to develop strong character qualities. We want to help them with the issues that they're facing. It's hardwired into teaching. Making these real impacts is one of the main reasons we teach.

Now, if we believe the Bible, we know that Jesus is actually the answer that so many of our students are seeking. Whether you teach in a Christian school or a public school, Jesus is the answer to so many of their problems. He is what they ultimately need. Jesus holds the answer to our students' identity issues, trouble with peers, etc.

Depending on where you teach, there could be a lot of limitations on what you're allowed to say. But my challenge is to not focus on the limitations but to look for what you can do within the limitations that you're given.

And even if we can't speak to the spiritual issues, we need to keep them in mind, because when we're keeping it in mind, then when the opportunity presents itself, we'll take advantage of it.

MOVING STUDENTS TO THE RIGHT

Depending on where you teach, this looks quite different.

In a Christian school, you can and should be open and clear and talk directly with students about Christ.

In public schools, you have a lot of restrictions. But you should still be looking for opportunities to do what you can, legally, to point them to Him.

But here's where we get tripped up: Sometimes we fall into the trap of thinking that in order to point students to Christ, we have to share the Gospel directly. Now if we have that opportunity, within our legal/professional obligations, then that's fantastic. But it's also quite rare. The good news is that sharing the Gospel itself is only one piece of the puzzle. This diagram shows the rest of the process:

image credit

Notice that there are many steps for a person to come to maturity in Christ. They may start far away, not even aware, and it takes many interactions before they're ready to receive the Gospel and accept Christ.

After a person is saved, they are transferred into the Kingdom of the Son, but there's still a lot left in the process. Discipleship, growth, training - all of this takes time to bring us to maturity in Christ.

There's often multiple people involved in this process, and that's where we as teachers may come in.

You may be one of these touchpoints along the way. Maybe you're the first Christian they've ever met and are an example of love and kindness. Maybe you bring up topics of religion in class (in a legal way) and get them to start thinking and asking questions.

You may never know the importance of these interactions. God may be using them in your students' lives.

We should look for opportunities to move students one step to the right, and we should never discount those small interactions that we are able to have with them.

To this end, it definitely helps to know what is & isn't legally allowed - and you might be pleasantly surprised to discover how much you are allowed to bring up topics of faith and religion - as long as they're done in the right way.

I recommend checking out our free Teach with Faith, not Fear training with David Schmus of CEAI. In it, you'll learn about what is and isn't legal when it comes to topics of faith and religion in the classroom. You'll also find answers to common questions such as whether or not you can tell your students you're a Christian, teach the religious origin of holidays, have a Bible  on your desk, and much more. Click here to enroll in the free Teach with Faith training.

CEAI is also a fantastic organization to connect with. They assist members with legal and ethical questions, provide advice for sticky situations, and even offer job action protection and professional liability insurance. Get more info about CEAI here.

a word for those in christian schools

If you teach in a Christian school, this process doesn't need to be subtle, and you should be actively working to move students along the spectrum - no matter which side they're on.

If they're already believers, then it's our privilege to actively disciple and train them, helping them through struggles a guiding them along their journey to maturity in Christ.

And for students that don't know Him, we can actively engage them as well - providing thought-provoking questions, discussing concerns, and even sharing the Gospel directly.

What a privilege!

never forget prayer!

As Christian teachers, we should view teaching as a ministry and seeking to move people to the right.

But we can never forget the importance of prayer.

Prayer is our way of partnering with God, so when we don't know, when we're looking for opportunities and we're not seeming to find them, we can always pray for our students. We can always make a difference through prayer - never doubt that it truly does make a difference.

We can pray directly for our students, and we can also pray for ourselves - that we would see the opportunities, that we would have wisdom,  and that He would bring us opportunities for us to do just that.

To help keep this top of mind, we invite you to join us in our free prayer challenge. The challenge is simple - pray for your students and school every day for three weeks. Join the 21-day prayer challenge here. 

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